June 26, 2010
Posted by in Mythology and Mysteries, Videos | 10.45pm | 345 views
The first part of the video is a short extract. But you will not be able to understand the whole theory unless you watch the whole documentary. I strongly advise those with intelligent and inquiring minds that wish to base thoughts on logic and perhaps facts to watch this. Or at least plausible theories.
Short clip
http://video.tsemtulku.com/videos/v20494803ExHPXrXx.flv
Or view the video on the server at: http://video.tsemtulku.com/videos/v20494803ExHPXrXx.flv
The full version of the video – Clash of the Gods – Zeus
http://video.tsemtulku.com/videos/v20494880bNrg4TeR.flv
Or view the video on the server at: http://video.tsemtulku.com/videos/v20494880bNrg4TeR.flv
This is a very interesting documentary of how the one-god theory arose from ancients times. This theory was not the domain of established modern religions but were already existent in pre-modern or pagan religions. This video shows how the one god theory is not the exclusive rights of anyone but in fact was a gradual process taken from Pagan religions. So what we might pre-suppose as modern (non-paganistic) or exclusive of modern religions may not be the case. EXTREMELY INTERESTING.
Please watch this intriguing documentary. But do concentrate and contemplate. It will be helpful for your religious studies. The one god theory may not be all that it is what we are told.
Tsem Tulku
(The views expressed in this video may not necessarily be my personal views. It is theories and possibilities I wish to explore. Maybe some of you would like to explore also.)
I don’t own any of the content of this video. All content is owned by KPI/Lightworks.
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the behavior of the greek Gods and Titans looks as of those of “devas and “asuras” as described in the lamrim.
Powerful, yet vain or jealous.
It makes them easy for us to relate to.
The personality of the modern so called god as affixed by people makes him seems very much like zeus is the message of this documentary I conclude.
This documentary points that out very clearly that zeus and the modern day god is angersome, punishes, expects worship, expects no questioning. This video suggests that the modern day god arose from pagan origins such as zeus.
Tsem Tulku
I have the impression, but pls correct me if i’m wrong, that people are only able to comprehend their “God” in the context of their own ability and understanding. It is like a reflection of the extent that they can ever be or comprehend. In ancient times, I believe there were more physical hardships and pressures, such that these emotions/characteristics of being “angersome, punishing, expecting worship, expecting no questioning”, as mentioned by Rinpoche, were very present amongst themselves, dictatorships of those kings/ rulers that were powerful and apparent. Hence, whenever they were to imagine God, who is suppose to be most powerful, they would imagine and comprehend one which has such characteristics.
I don’t know if this is relevant or a possibility, but just a thought..
Thinking of it, to worship a God that would reflect my own limited ability and understanding….scary!
It has never made sense to me that this one god is always portrayed as angersome, jealous and revengeful – why would you take refuge and worship that?! Why would god be so petty?!
Rinpoche also recently showed us a cute extract from Star Trek, The final frontier, where they trek all the way across the galaxy to find “god”… only to find out that he’s this crazy, angry, power-hungry alien who wants to take their starship and go out to other worlds to gain more control. It was hugely revolutionary at the time, when this movie was out, because it totally challenged people’s idea and concept of god. It was downright blasphemous! hehe
I don’t think these theories are meant to be in any way offensive to religions who do believe in a God – but rather, it is to encourage to think about what they are really worshipping or paying homage to, and how this “figure” and “personality” has arose. I appreciate Rinpoche’s kindness very much in always giving us these videos to watch and learn. It does help us very much in our understanding of pursuing a spiritual journey and gaining a clearer concept of WHAT we are really praying to: some angry bearded man in the sky? Or the enlightened, compassionate, wide qualities that are embodied by the “gods” we worship? I choose the latter because it is far more real, and makes so much more sense. Isn’t that what all religions encourage? To take refuge in peace and understanding, not revenge/anger and sending down thunderbolts when we’re pissed off at someone
“My thoughts are completely different from yours,” says the Lord. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.” Isaiah 55: 8,9
The verse from the Old Testament is a common verse quoted by many Christians when things don’t go well or cannot be explained..it is a reflection of the one-god/almighty god relationship with his children (believers)
One of the contradiction is that the Bible is meant to be a handbook or guideline for believers…but how can the Bible be a handbook for people to comprehend in order to follow if God’s thoughts are stated to be different from ours… hmm…
After watching this video it has made me realize how much the Buddhist way of life and philosophy suits me and that the logical basis behind enlightened beings it resonates with my type of thinking. For example a Buddha or enlightened beings will never harm you because they have developed their compassion to such an advanced degree they are incapable of harming you, only benefiting you.
Whereas theistic religions that believe in Creator God theory more often than not, complete submission is necessary for the God not to squash you like a bug or send you to a bad place after you die. That does not sound like God is unconditionally compassionate to me. Anyways the fact that there is disparity in the world is prove to me that the karma theory holds water. On what basis does a God chooses some people to have much bounty, some have none isn’t it very unfair to those who are downtrodden?
It is so apparent to me that God, whether it is the Greek/Roman variant or the Judeo-Christian one, they seemed to be man-made. Man-like personality of power-obsessed individual hell-bound to keep mankind under his thumb so they would worship him. The link mentioned in the film is very thought-provoking and points at a possible creation of the monotheitic Judeo-Christian God.
The God theory always insists that God created us and whatever bad happens, it is God working in mysterious ways or his way to test us or make us fear him. Therefore, I like Buddhism because it offers a figurehead of a Buddha, not as an almighty creator being but a compassionate guide. Buddha don’t punishes us or takes away our sins when we commit evil but he blesses us with his teachings and image of inspiration. The central theme of Buddha’s teachings is taking charge of our destiny through understanding and contemplation. I find that exceptionally liberating!
I agree with you, David.
I cannot agree with you more David! Isn’t all so strange that “GOD” would create people who suffer just to teach those that are not suffering a lesson? How unfair is that? That was what I always thought when they gave me those theories.
I am also uncomfortable with the FEAR tactics used to convince people that “GOD” is great. It just goes to show that God is full of anger and insecurities. This has never really worked for me. Also they always say that all you need to do is pray and repent your sins and all will be fine. Well ok, does that mean I can go out and robe and kill and then go sit in confession and wallah, I’m ok and my sins are washed?
A lot of it just doesn’t make sense and that is why I guess Buddhism has a bigger attraction to the modern thinkers of today.
I am attracted to Buddhism because it gives you logic and clear understanding on why things happen the way they do in your life and it answered a lot of the questions I had about life that other “religion” seem to just say “Trust and believe in God”. Sometimes you just need to see some real action and results.
As a (forced) believer for many years I testify to the power of the whole system. Many people are totally in check for basically their whole lives. Rational in many other ways but when it comes to this they are completely hand tied for the fear of eternal damnation basically..
Karma much better explains just about every question that I was not allowed to ask..
Terima Kasih Rinpoche!
Monotheism, as I have read, owes its long history to civilizations and primitive sources that pre/postdates it and the Greek one is one of its legacies. When I was in the Protestant/Catholic Traditions, I used to debate/discuss these ideas with the Jesuit Fathers and one local Bible Professor in exploring these and few amongst them agree. the Catholic Church owes its many liturgical and festive ideas besides certain doctrinal ones their past Greco Roman heritage in Rome but of course the traditionalists would flip at that thought.
One question I used to ponder was, ‘Did God made man in His Image or was it the other way round?’
Perhaps, as civilizations/societies no longer struggle with the basic fundamentals of life and became more refined, so did their God(s)…
Zeus being the most powerful ruler and King of his era in Greece may have wanted his reign to lasts eternally. He was even fearful of his sons taking over him or became even more powerful and influential than he was. The delusion of greed or desire for power may have instigated him to create the notion of “one god” for men to create fear in his subjects and instilled loyalty to him alone.
Obviously, there is no right or wrong about this controversial theory but it is something that we should think deeper about and ask the billion dollar question “Is there really A God only”?
I always did not know where the “One God” theory come from until now. This video shows how the “one god theory” is not the special rights of anyone but in fact was a gradual process taken from Pagan religions a long time ago. That is why I find the video useful. In Buddhism, a god is a valid realm in samsara. That means there must be many. I want to ask, if the chances of a human rebirth would be that of a blind turtle floating to the top of the ocean every hundred years to go into the ring of a life buoy, what are the odds of becoming a god or a demi-god, is it stated in the scriptures?
As a teenager, I used to read volumes on Greek and Roman Mythology. I used to love them and admire them. They were so supreme to me, at that time. Now, I hold a very different view though I still have all the books.
I am sorry but it would be very difficult for me to worship some God who killed his own father to seize power to control, and seems intent to indulge in his own desires, fears, lusts and etc. Then this God is no different than me. Then I may as well worship myself.
However, if I look at these mythologies as a way to educate me NOT to follow in their path, then it is a different thing. If their stories are meant to teach and remind us, then it makes more sense.
No matter how powerful we are, and we may even control the skies, but what good would that do us when we can’t even control our own emotions?
There is no logic and point in controlling everything outside of us, when we have zero control within. That is where the real chaos reigns – inside us.
The Clash of the Gods is a mirror to the clash of humanity that is evident in our world. It is like a “magnified” version of our world – within and without.
Buddhism is a very different path. It spells out the ways for us to kill the Gods of the desires within us. In this respect, I always find Buddhism logical, empowering and most liberating.
Strength is when we over-power others in brute force, but true power is when we conquer ourselves. This is the path I rather take refuge in.
For me, the focus I have put on “God-centered” religions has always been: “does God exist, or not?”
If he does, I believe; if he does not, I don’t believe.
And I mean here, does God exist as:
1. the only one,
2. the one that created the universe,
3. the one that will eventually judge us.
I have never been able to build up conviction in such a definition of God.
Yet, the Gods as described in the greek mythology, I can relate to easily, and I can easily accept that they exist and that their reality is actually pretty much in line with the myth.
Nevertheless, to believe in them does not mean that I would think of them as appropriate objects of refuge. They look more like mafia “grand-fathers” than a being in which I want to put my spiritual aspirations.
The fact that I could never believe in A God, as described in items 1, 2 and 3 above did put me OFF my spiritual path for a very long time, until I finally came across the spiritual path in which I could develop faith, that is the path of the 4 Noble Truths as taught by Shakyamuni Buddha.
I was taught that there was only one God from the time I was a little kid. Since it was that way for the most part of my life, I never questioned the theory but just accepted it as the truth. You never question what is written in the book but accepted it as the “word of God”. I learnt that he was a god of love though he exhibited wrath at times. So far so good.
But then in the last 3 years or so, I allowed myself to venture out into forbidden territory, to question my faith in what I thought was the “word of God”. If he is all omniscient, surely he would have known that the man he was about to create would end up a sinner. Why then did he create man in the first place only to punish him and sentence him to hell, that is if he was a god of love? Did he do that intentionally which would mean he’s not a very nice god, or did he make a mistake which means he’s not omnicient? Even if it was a mistake, why didn’t he arrest it instead of letting the suffering continue? How can he stand by in heaven and bear to see the suffering in the world he created and do nothing? After all he’s omnipotent and can make everything perfect again. Why did he choose not to? “Free Will” they quickly say. Maybe he shouldn’t have created free will and there would be no problem.
If you follow me and do as I say, you go to heaven, if not you go to hell. That sounds too patronizing for me. It creates fear. Where is the love?
The whole theory became murkier and murkier for me at least, till I decided it doesn’t make sense. But I’m not omniscient that’s why I can’t see the truth. Yeah ok, whatever.
That completely fell through the cracks for me. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but it just doesn’t work for me anymore.
p/s This is my personal observation. In no way am I representing anybody by presenting these views. I believe I am entitled to my own opinion and so is everyone else.
This is brilliant. Nowhere have I read something that mirrors my own experience and my thoughts so completely.. Wow!
I was always fascinated with Greek Mythologies and their legends at a tender age. I love to read about all these gods, titans and monsters with their given personalities and how they are worshipped. They are usually illustrated in books as beings much like men and women dwelt together in a community of light and pleasantness. The difference between them and us is that they are immortal and possesses the gift of powers. Hmmnnn.. nevertheless they are also endowed with many human weaknesses like lust, jealousy, envious, spiteful, wrathful, vindictive and petulant… aiyahhh~such dysfunctional childish bunch just like us mortals.
In a well known story of Medusa, she was once a beautiful priestess to Athena, the Greek Goddess of war before she defiled the temple with the God Poseidon which is a terrible violation of a sacred place . Athena punished her by transforming her into a hideous monster with snakes for hair whose gaze could turn men into stone. Medusa was later killed by the hero Perseus, who looked at her only in the reflection of his metal shield.
Why did Athena punished Medusa alone and not Poseidon after all it was Poseidon who enticed Medusa into such actions. Either way, if they are Gods, shouldn’t they abstain from such activities? My conclusion is bad judgement and the possibility of Athena being jealous of Medusa’s beauty and was too weak to confront God Poseidon of his actions thus leashed out her anger on a weaker being with no possibility of compassion and forgiveness by mercilessly changing Medusa into a being that would petrify anyone, forcing Medusa into seclusion, experiencing extreme loneliness and fear of what had happened to her which is beyond her control. She was probably trying to reach to people and other beings for companionship but turned them into stone instead (not her intention but had no control). For being such a threat to living beings, stories of terror spreaded far and wide to have her slayed. If only the GODS were told the truth about Karma and being aware that karma would take care of all individual actions. I guess they would not be so obscured, would they?
Actions of sheer stupidity but highly entertaining.
My understanding of “God(s)” and all that the word encompass came crashing down in an instant the day Mr. Ngeow gave me the Karma Chart. It was only then that i realised that the God and Demi-God realms are merely 2 out of 6 sectors of un-enlightened existence.
If i take the Karma Chart to be the correct basis of understanding, it all begins to make sense why there are so many Gods and why Gods and Demi_gods are prone to anger and jealousies. Gods and Demi-gods are still within Samsara. Therefore debating which is the true god and whose god is the right god is like chosing whether to be at the port or the starboard of the sinking Titanic. The focus is totally wrong!
Perhaps i am completely wrong in interpreting Karma and if i am i apologize.
Perhaps “God” or the element of “god-ness” is already in all of us and our focus should be what we do with what we have NOW. What i like about what i have learned [presumably correctly] about the Buddha’s teaching is that we, as human beings, regardless of what state or status we are in, are in the ideal state to attain enlightenment and our focus ought not to choose which God to worship but what we must do with what we have now and how we should conditions our thoughts and actions.
God can’t help us out o Samsara but we can if we acknowledge the truth and practice the dharma.
I don’t know if i am even close to being somewhat right. Anyone care to comment/teach?
Watching this video shows me why it is so hard for gods to practice dharma and gain liberation. They just have to many distractions and attachments. All they think about is how to protecting their position, gaining more power and sex. The worse part is their attachments are so strong that are willing to do anything to hold onto them. I can’t imagine being immortal if life is that way. Perhaps it’s a different type of hell.
Looking at the world today, with modernization and development, everyone is beginning to act like gods. We are so attached to so many things and are doing so many things to protect our attachments. Are we a remake of how gods became gods? Are we at the pivotal point in time when the dharma will play an essential role?
“As above, so below”" The Greeks believe that the gods and goddesses are very humanlike. The classical divinities are portrayed as vengeful, intensely emotional beings. The struggle for succession between Cronus and Zeus show that the Greeks understood that the family story is the essential grist for the story of mankind. In fact the story of the gods began with Gaia (Mother Earth) who helps the youngest sons (Cronus and Zeus) to overthrow their proud and cruel fathers. Cronus revolted against his father Uranus; Zeus against his father Cronus. Generations fight against each other. They are full of negative emotions: envy, jealousy, fear and suspicion. These are the faults that the gods (and humans) have in the upper realms of samsara. They are not free from karma.
As a (forced) believer for many years I can testify to the power of the mean theistic system. Many people are totally in check for basically their whole lives. Rational in many other ways but when it comes to this they are completely hand tied for the fear of eternal damnation basically..
Karma much better explains just about every question that I was not allowed to ask..